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keithcross
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 870
Location: Hampshire England
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 Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 9:47 am Post subject: Replacing Baghira Front Fork Seals |
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Hi
Just replaced one of my front fork seals and I think I should let you all know of an error in te MZ Front Fork Manual.
The manual states that to remove the seal "with a screwdriver exert a pressure under the seal in order for it to come out" It also recommends that a bushing is used to protect the fork leg.
I did not attempt to do it this way as it looked a bit risky. I used an internal bearing puller to remove mine and I recommend you to use a similar method.
Keith
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Du Can
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 21
Location: East Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Good call Keith.
Also, when replacing the seal due to failure, consider replacing the bushings as well.
My 02 Baghira (Marzocchi Magnum fork) blew the seal twice in less than 500km on the compression side. After replacing the offending seal AND the bushings in that leg, she is holding tight 3000+km later.
This is funny: The fork is almost identical to my Marzocchi Z2 mountain bike fork, but much bigger.
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kman.45
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Knoxville Tennessee USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Du Can wrote: | Good call Keith.
Also, when replacing the seal due to failure, consider replacing the bushings as well.
My 02 Baghira (Marzocchi Magnum fork) blew the seal twice in less than 500km on the compression side. After replacing the offending seal AND the bushings in that leg, she is holding tight 3000+km later.
This is funny: The fork is almost identical to my Marzocchi Z2 mountain bike fork, but much bigger. |
Wow, do a search for fork seal and get this. I just found my leaking seal yesterday during a ride. Leaking on the compression side (left). Was hoping to find a US source too for seals, wipers, and bushings.
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DAVID THOMPSON
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1118
Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia usa .You know the PARTS have been SHIPPED when the MAIL MAN knocks
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kman.45
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Knoxville Tennessee USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: Seal height |
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Actually I just got off the phone with Race Tech, and the tech told me the bushings and dust seals are the same for all 45mm Marzochi forks (USD or conventional), but they have two different heights of oil seals. 8.5 mm and 11mm, so unless somebody can tell us which one it is, I guess I'll be pulling the forks apart before ordering parts. Which might not be a bad idea anyway so I can see if I need bushings or not. At 11K km, I wouldn't think so, but something just made the oil seal fail (bumps and railroad tracks don't count do they?) 
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DAVID THOMPSON
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1118
Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia usa .You know the PARTS have been SHIPPED when the MAIL MAN knocks
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cat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: |
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is the seal size not specified in the Marzocchi pdf? or do they just give a part number? (i'll check now.) when you get the size/whatever information, please post it and i'll add it to the parts doc.
are those seal puller tools no good for this? (it seems like they could damage whatever they're bearing down on.)
what type of internal bearing puller is it, Keith? - the shock/slide hammer type?
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kman.45
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Knoxville Tennessee USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| cat wrote: | is the seal size not specified in the Marzocchi pdf? or do they just give a part number? (i'll check now.) when you get the size/whatever information, please post it and i'll add it to the parts doc.
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Marzocchi pdf? Oooh, please do share. I was just going to service forks blind, figuring they were pretty much like every other fork I've taken apart, but hey pics and words are always good.. With a part number, maybe Race Tech can cross reference?
Kyle
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kman.45
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Knoxville Tennessee USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: Got seal sizes |
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So I pulled the forks apart tonight. The seals in my forks are NOK brand. Sure enough the oil seal is 45x58x11mm, and is so stamped. The dust seal is stamped 45 58.4 4.6 14, which relates to 45 inner diamer, 58.4 outer where it fits in fork leg (a tiny bit oversized cuz it has little ribs that get compressed, the 4.6mm is the depth it seats into the fork leg, and 14mm is the total height. That 4.6mm seat depth is not very critical as there is plenty of room between the bottom of that seal and the top of the oil seal.
The bushing on the inner leg is 45 x 20 high x 1 thick. The bushing in the outer leg is 45 x 25 high x 2.5 thick. Both of these are as listed by Race Tech for both the USD and conventional Marzocchi 45mm forks.
At only 11K km, I was a bit surprised at the wear on the bushings. The inner leg bushing look pretty good, but the outer leg bushings have a bit of wear (can see copper base), enough so I will replace them, soon as I figure how to get the damn things out. The oil was pretty filthy too. And maybe I've ridden 600-800 kms on gravel roads in that 11,000 km, maybe... But it's black filth, not dirt/gravel colored.
Oh, and a really good seal "puller" turned out to be my spoon tire iron. Turned it so the spoon was curved up, put thick piece of bottle plastic on top of fork leg, and the seals slipped right out. Honestly could probably use them again. The outer leg bushing though...hmmmm.
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OLDMTNCARVER
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 73
Location: Ca. Mtns
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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kman.45,
Haven't been watching, sorry...
If you go to the forum and select 660, on the second page the third post down has down loads of what you might have been looking for...
Good to hear the seals weren't damaged and thank you for the valuable information.
Highest regards,
Robert
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phlat65
Moderator
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 703
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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FYI, you can make a seal driver out of a peice of PVC pipe that is slightly larger ID than the leg OD, cut a 2 inch peice, then split it in 2, I filed a groove around the outside so I could put a hose clamp on it.
to remove the bushings on my USD forks, once the dust seal is removed and you remove the ring that retains the seal, just use the inner tube like a slide hammer, by sliding it out forcefully until both the seal and bushing come out. I have serviced forks many times this way, and is how my suspension guy would do it.
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2001 Suzuki RM125 (full Enduro)
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DAVID THOMPSON
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1118
Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia usa .You know the PARTS have been SHIPPED when the MAIL MAN knocks
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cat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Got seal sizes |
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Thanks. Updated the MZ Baghira - Technical Data, Service Specifications, Alternative Parts.mht. I'll upload later.
Good one with the improvised seal puller. 
The dirt, black, is mostly metal particles mixed with the oil - that's why it's black-ish. Not many people change fork oil often enough.
PS: The 45mm for the bushings, is that 45 ID for the inner/tube ones and 45 ...OD/ID for the outer/slider ones?
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kman.45
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Knoxville Tennessee USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Got seal sizes |
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| cat wrote: | Thanks. Updated the MZ Baghira - Technical Data, Service Specifications, Alternative Parts.mht. I'll upload later.
Good one with the improvised seal puller.
The dirt, black, is mostly metal particles mixed with the oil - that's why it's black-ish. Not many people change fork oil often enough.
PS: The 45mm for the bushings, is that 45 ID for the inner/tube ones and 45 ...OD/ID for the outer/slider ones? |
yeah, no doubt all internal wear gunk in the oil. the 45 mm spec is not really the true diameters because the bushings are split rings that open up, but yeah, the inner leg bushing is 45 mm outside diameter, the material faces "out". The outer leg bushing is 45mm inside diameter and the material faces "in"
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kman.45
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 65
Location: Knoxville Tennessee USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| phlat65 wrote: | | to remove the bushings on my USD forks, once the dust seal is removed and you remove the ring that retains the seal, just use the inner tube like a slide hammer, by sliding it out forcefully until both the seal and bushing come out. I have serviced forks many times this way, and is how my suspension guy would do it. |
Hell of a tip! I put the inner bushing back on, pushed the inner tube back into the outer, gave a tiny tug and the outer bushing slid right out!
Here's a pic of the bushings. Left fork is on the left, you can see the extra wear on that side. The outer leg bushing is significantly more worn than the right leg, and the scoured part you can see is rough. The inner bushing was more worn than right side also.
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2002 MZ RT125+95 Saxon Tour in WV USA "I like the road less traveled if it's PAVED!."
