Exhaust system Design Details

[Randew2U]

I've been looking getting a new exhaust can as my next upgrade. I know that my stock exhaust is 2-inches in diameter before it connects to the stock can. Do you hacksaw the exhaust off in this area before slipping on a M4 can? Does an M4 can have an intermediate "dogleg" pipe? What is the length of the big diameter can of an M4? Im considering getting an, adjustable disc, supertrapp exhaust, so popular with ktm 640's. Can your typical US muffler shop bend up a 2" diameter connector pipe (or a whole batch of them for that matter) to adapt a specific 2" inlet muffer? Thanks in advance.

[hulagun]

I don't have an M4 but based on research it looks like they sell a Y-pipe midpipe that fits over the twin headpipes, and replaces the stock muffler entirely. It's a Mastiff pipe and apparently hangs 2" low on the Baghira.

I am considering having a local fabricator make a custom Y-mid-pipe to connect to a readily available canister (maybe an R1 or Hayabusa can). I am not happy with the look of the base M4 can where it mounts. It would be cleaner tucked in tighter and at more of an angle. Another option I like is running duals - It can be done with one can going where the stock toolbox is mounted.

Have you got the German high flow header or the stock header? If I can save enough $$ I think the German headers would make a good difference.

Maybe we can team up and get someone to make a run of Y-midpipes for the Baghira that would look better. Anybody have connections at M4 or another good pipe maker?

[phlat65]

I have made 2 complete exhaust systems. A single can competition system using a stock 02 YZF450 can, cut the stock Baggy head pipe and welded to the YZF can, mount lined up perfect with the stock location, and tucked real nice in the side panel. It is LOUD!!!! (looked for some pics, will take some tomorrow)

2nd system uses stock Ducati 748/996 cans with custom head pipes. I made the head pipes out of stainless bathroom grab rail from hardware store, made the can mounts out of alluminum and riveted to can, and mimicked the mount location on the left of of the right. it is a little louder than stock, breathes really well, and has a little bark when you go to WOT.

seat of the pants has the quiet system with better tourqe, wheelies easier, but the loud system maybe pulls better on top. I prefer the twin pipes.

system 1 cost me $0.00
system 2 cost me $95.00

here are the pics

[Randew2U]

What a feat there Phlat! I can hack saw, drill and bolt easily, as can 90% of backyard mechanics. Welding stainless is something I'd have to sub out though. Id consider the Yamacan approach thought, please post a picture. Maybe someone can have one dynoed?

[hulagun]

Phlat- that is one cool looking set up. I wish I could weld stainless.

Thanks for the pics, very helpful. I am wondering if there was any weight savings since you used somewhat hefty OEM Ducati canisters. Whaddaya think?

Any tire rubbing issues whatsover? Looks to me like the answer is no.

Can you post a pic showing the "whole bike" looks with the duals, and showing the Y-junction (if any)? You are a genius if you also fitted a smooth 2-1-2 transition (which would help balance the system).

I sent a note to Jorge at Renegade Exhaust in England to see if he'd consider a run of Baghira pipes or even duals. No word back yet.

Ivan

[phlat65]

thanks for the props guys!! I love to make things, even though I am not the greatest fabricator.

welding stainless is not so hard, bought the correct wire for the wire feed, and went at it.

I did not do a 2-1-2, they are not tied together at all, That is next, but I dont think it will help that much, since both cans flow so little.

I am going to add an oxygen sensor bung to 1 of them, and record runs with my lab scope at diff throttle settings for jetting purposes to get the most from them.

they probably weigh the same as a stock exhaust. feel about the same.

as far as rubbing, I removed the rear shock and swept the wheel through full travell before I built the mounts ( they are also supported at the end with a Mercedes Benz air cleaner housing rubber mount)

[Randew2U]

I did some searching of .de sites last night and found this example of a mastiff with a supertrapp can. These are the nuts with the KTM 640 guys and they talk about the number of discs they are running coordinated to their jetting. Im trying to find out if Supertrapp sells this abroad and if so can they get me one or quantity of the intermediate pipes? The second picture shows a serious chop of the radiator shrouds. I think a great aftermarket component would be a combined radiator guard and radiator shroud support that uses the 7/8" tubing mount to the frame and the front frame bar for support, an idea anyway. It would allow for shrouds a big bigger than those here but smaller than cutting the pipes as on phlats bike, an idea anyway.

[hulagun]

I am not a big fan of Supertrapps. Their best qualities are that they don't use packing, and that they disperse soundwaves radially so that decibel meters have a harder time locking in on them. This means they sound louder than they "measure". The "tunable" thing is wierd. I prefer tuning with jetting. Also - other pipes do the same job with much less weight.

I'm talking to a local fabricator about building a short run of stainless midpipes that would use a single can (i.e. Yamaha R1 stock or aftermarket muffler) or else duals. I can't imagine I could get anough guys to warrant the expense, but speak up now if you KNOW you'd want one of these. A guesstimate is they'd cost about $150 each for single and $200 for duals if I could get 3 or 4 sold. Then you'd have to source your own canister(s) and mounts.

But let me know if this idea has merit.

Ivan

[Randew2U]

In new york state we do not have big problems with loud mufflers, ask the harly guy who goes past my house every morning. I like the way the supertrapp fits and is it that heavy? Im interested in ordering a 2 into one stainless midpipe similar to the one shown on my post above!! $150 sounds palatable, im not sure?

[hulagun]

This isn't a noise thread but - why defend riding around being a dickhead like those harley guys with real loud pipes?
Sure I like a bike I can hear, but there is a point where a pipe that's too loud is stoopid. Except maybe on a race bike. Even in New York.

There are obvious reasons to have great sounding pipes that are not obnoxiously loud pipes.

Specific to the Supertrapp question, the more discs you add to allow the pipe to breathe, the louder it gets... AND the heavier. Plus the weight is all way out at the end of the pipe which stresses the brackets... unless they are reinforced (as in HEAVY).

I'm not saying Supertrapps aren't good, just saying I don't like them and why (they are heavy).

[hulagun]

As far as the midpipes go, if I gauge enough interest, and get deposits up front, then they will probably be made to bolt an Aprilia Mille or R1 (or some other big bike) aftermarket canister onto. Then it's just a matter of getting a good deal on a muffler, maybe on ebay. Whether a Supertrapp megaphone would bolt on, anyone who buys the Y-pipe is welcome to experiment.

One other thing about Supertrapps... I raced Formula Singles and Supermonos for a long time, note: I am not a tuner!! Racing the 4 valve Hondas and Rotax's we all used reverse cone megaphones and big glass packed mufflers. The only guys running Supertrapps were vintage guys with 2-valve motors. A single Supertrapp is inadequate for a big Thumper, if you want decent top end HP without a lot of noise and weight. You could use dual Supertrapps, but then the weight issue may become, well, weightier.

Here's a link if you want to learn a lot about mufflers on another big German single.

http://faq.f650.com/GSFAQs/ExhaustModificationsGS.htm

[phlat65]

here are pics of the YZF pipe installed. I cut the 2-1 of the stock pipe, used a 2-3 inch peice I cut out of another junk exhaust I got for free to join the 2 sections, and fitted it and welded together.

[phlat65]

last pic

[Randew2U]

The picture above showing the Mastiff with a Supertrapp system is on the german muffler web site and the contact listed there is mbk@rsj.de. Can someone who writes german please do me(us) a great favor and email him asking the following? "Is your Supertrapp exhaust system off-the-shelf? What model for? Is the midpipe custom fabricated, or from supertrapp? thanks"

Thank you in advance!

[phlat65]

just copy and paste...

"ist Ihre Supertrapp Abgasanlage ab Lager? Für welches Modell? Wird
die midpipe Gewohnheit oder vom supertrapp fabriziert? Dank "

Danke im voraus!