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JT700
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Columbus Georgia
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 Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject: What do you think about break in procedures? |
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I recently came across this surfing the web, mabye some of you have read it. I'm not really sure whether I agree with it or not. check it out and tell me what you think. It's really quite interesting!!
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Last edited by JT700 on Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nobog
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Minnesota, USA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: well.. |
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quote from Motoman:
Q: What's the third most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Not changing the oil soon enough after the engine is first run !!
Change Your Oil Right Away !!
The best thing you can do for your engine is to change your oil and filter after the first 20 miles.
Odd, Honda absolutely, unequivocally states to NOT change engine oil for 5000 miles on their car motors. JK |
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JT700
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Columbus Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Im not really sure but I think car and truck motors are factory broken in, whereas most motorcycle engines need to be broken in once you get them. Couldnt really tell you being that its been a long time since Ive bought a new car. Ill have to check my owners manual and see if they recommend some kind of break in procedure on my pontiac. |
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JT700
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Columbus Georgia
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I just finished reading all the articles on that website there is alot of good technical information on there. |
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Nobog
Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 40
Location: Minnesota, USA
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DAVID THOMPSON
Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Posts: 1118
Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia usa .You know the PARTS have been SHIPPED when the MAIL MAN knocks
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: BREAK IN |
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hello
the article above explains some mysteries for me
1 i went to a school bus factory in 1995 to pick up new buses and drive
them to wv about 500 miles
i was complaining about how fast every one was running the new engines
and that my bus would not run that fast
i came out of restrurant and mechinic was adjusting the engine govener
and said to keep up with the pack and i said there running way tooo
fast like 75mph on new motors
he said run the piss out of it so i dont have to put in a new set of rings at 20,000 miles so it runs right and does not use gallons of oil
i rebuilt a 1972 bmw r75/5 my dad said to take it out on a 50 mile hard
ride out a very curvy road here then change the oil
and run it as i normaly ride it
the last time i saw it it had over 100,000 on the rings and still runing strong with low oil use
my rt125 went 50 miles to first oil change and 2nd at 600
now every 2000 and only break in was stayed under 8,000 rpm till
1500 miles then just flat out let is sing sweet music
ar dave
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Dave  2002 MZ RT125+95 Saxon Tour in WV USA "I like the road less traveled if it's PAVED!."
links to 125cc BLOG and my bikes picture
http://wd8cyv.spaces.live.com/
http://www.mzriders.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=30
www.qrz.com/wd8cyv |
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jbthumper
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 311
Location: Malaysia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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i did what Dave did on his rt for my sm.
i only use mineral oil for the break-in period.
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cat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Re: well.. |
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| Nobog wrote: | | Odd, Honda absolutely, unequivocally states to NOT change engine oil for 5000 miles on their car motors. JK |
It'll be their special run-in oil. What they want for the running-in period. |
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thumperacer
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 4
Location: New Mexico
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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That is pretty much what I did to break in race motors. Except for the first time I would just let it idle until reaching operating temp and then let it cool down. Changing the oil is key here. All the micro filing will shorten engine life for sure. I also wouldn't use synthetic oil until break in is done.
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cat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| thumperacer wrote: | | That is pretty much what I did to break in race motors. Except for the first time I would just let it idle until reaching operating temp and then let it cool down. Changing the oil is key here. All the micro filing will shorten engine life for sure. I also wouldn't use synthetic oil until break in is done. |
Yes...Kawasaki KDX and KX manuals say idle until hot, cool completely, run gently 15 minutes, cool completely. So the heat cycling is important to them.
The synthetic vs mineral...I don't know. Honda [car] saying do not change oil for first 5000, that must be synthetic oil. BMW and various other cars come with synthetic oil. I think that some of the properties of the synthetic oil are an advantage during break-in. |
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keithcross
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 870
Location: Hampshire England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: |
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The whole point of a break in procedure is to get rid of all the high points that are made as a part of the manufacturing process. I have ben told (rightly or wrongly) NOT to use fully synth oil while breaking an engine in. It can slow down the whole process.
Some articles dont recommend an extended break in procedure if you want maximum performance. They seem to belive that its more important not to run the engine at high throttle openings rether then not keeping revs high for the first few hours of an engines life,
Me, I stick to the makers recommendations. The dealer I got my MZ from said to use normanl mineral oil for the first 1000 miles and to change the oil twice during this period. The he reckoned semi synth was good.
Keith
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cat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| keithcross wrote: | The whole point of a break in procedure is to get rid of all the high points that are made as a part of the manufacturing process. I have ben told (rightly or wrongly) NOT to use fully synth oil while breaking an engine in. It can slow down the whole process.
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I question that. But there is not really conclusive scientific information available to us. I can see that many of the benefits of synthetic which relate to longer 'drain intervals' would not be relevant to the running in period when you're going to change the oil more often anyway.
My preference - the recommendation I like - is change the oil often, more often that the specified first service point. Get the little fragments (if any) out. You want to wear off the high points etc (although this should be less relevant with modern close-tolerance manufacturing) but you don't want the particles floating around causing wear and scoring.
I also stick to the manufacturer's recommendations, because of the lack of authoritative, conclusive evidence for the various theories. That said, that particular article, the famous one that people refer to so often, does have some ..clear ideas that don't conflict with what I've always understood about running-in. Like if you don't rev it, it'll never rev easily (although I'm not putting that very well.)
You've probably noticed that manufacturers are generally less fussy / less specific than they were in the 1960's and 70s. (The manufacturing tolerances are better, the metallurgy is better, the oil is better.) So you find a lot of people that buy new cars these days have never even heard of "running in". Maybe the dealer tells them to take it easy until the first service.
| keithcross wrote: | | Some articles dont recommend an extended break in procedure if you want maximum performance. They seem to belive that its more important not to run the engine at high throttle openings rether then not keeping revs high for the first few hours of an engines life, |
No 'lugging', keep the load low - that's always been part of it. Rev it through the lower gears but don't overrev it. The thing is, it's easier to explain to the 'average Joe' that he should not rev it too high, than to explain about engine load conditions.
| keithcross wrote: |
Me, I stick to the makers recommendations. The dealer I got my MZ from said to use normanl mineral oil for the first 1000 miles and to change the oil twice during this period. The he reckoned semi synth was good.
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MZ are quite specific about the revs.
The oil...presumably it comes with Silkolene oil. Do they make mineral oil, or only semi-synthetic and full synthetic? |
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keithcross
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 870
Location: Hampshire England
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Hi Cat
Cant find a mineral oil in teh Silkolene range, but motorcycle specific mineral oil is avaiable in teh UK. One of the big car accessory chains here called Halfords, sell Mineral, semi synth and fully synth morotcycle specific oil.
I use this oil in my bikes and it seems to be good stuff, one of my friends who runs streetfighters, his current ride puts out 239RWBHP uses Halfordss fully synth oil with great effect.
Cant see the point of fully synth oil for the MZ as the engine is quite old technology and is relitivly low stressed. I would use fully synth if I tuned the motor though.
As for the breaking in procedure though, a good lubricant is not a good thing as it slows down the running in process. The peaks in teh metal will always be there to some extent with mass production technics, with the posibiltiy of chrome plated or ceramic cylinder bores.
Still each to his own
Keith
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cat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 398
Location: South Africa
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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So unless you change the oil as soon as you take delivery, or the dealer puts in something other than Silkolene (I'm not sure how it's done, but I know KTMs come with the oil they want used for the break-in period), you'll have Silkolene semi-synthetic.
The point of the synthetic oil in old tech engines would be the better qualities re acid forming, shear stability, maintaining lubrication properties longer etc. Like you say, though, no big deal - ordinary 20W50 is fine - as long as it's SG, without the modern friction reducer additives.
The manufacturer-specific recommendations - like MZ recommending Silkolene and KTM recommending Motorex is just some deal they have. They're all good. |
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